Utah Windriders Association

We've never had a discussion about avalanches and I've never heard of any kiter specific information. If we get a heavy dump on top of the junky snow, there will be alot of avalanches. We've had pretty stable snow at our kiting spots the last few years but this will be different. If we get a foot or more snow, the weight of the new snow can collapse the old snow underneath and slide. Many slopes are going to slide on their own. Others will sit there until a trigger ( you ) sets it off.

Here are some basic thoughts.
If we get alot of new snow it's probably wise to stay off ( or away from ) anything steep enough to slide. ( Anything steep enough to have fun on if you were skiing or snowboarding ). Let the slope sit until you have good reason to believe that things are stabilizing.

If somebody makes it down a slope, it doesn't mean the whole slope is safe. There can be other sweet spots lurking that haven't been affected.

Look around for signs. The biggest one is if you see that another slope has slid and it is similar to the one you are going to, there is a very good chance that it will slide too.

If you are above or near a slope and you feel a thump from the snow collapsing, or you cause shooting cracks in the snow, back off the slope.

Other smaller features ( terrain traps ) can be dangerous. Sides of gullys, cut banks from roads, etc.

Wearing an avalanche beacon and carrying a shovel are wise.

When approaching an untracked slope that you want to ride, instead of jumping right in, go across the top of the slope and see if it goes. Stay high enough that if it goes you'll be in the upper part of the slide.

If you are on a slope and it starts to slide, head across and down quickly and try to get out the side.

Here's were it becomes kiter specific, and open to discussion because I've never been or know anyone who's ever been in a slide with a kite.

If the slide knocks you over, you want to stay on the surface. If you can, work the kite hard so it stays powered up and keeps you up. It could possibly be like body dragging. It's especially important that when the slide gets to the bottom and starts to slow down that you fight to stay on the surface.

As far as trying to jump or glide your way out, I don't know what to say. It might be possible to do a hovering type jump and let the slide go by underneath you. Landing back in the slide could be bad. It would seem that gliding out would be the best but avalanches create their own wind so it could get wierd. Also I don't know what it would be like taking of from snow that is moving underneath you.

If you see some one caught in a slide, don't go for help. You are that persons only chance. Hopefully the kite would stay above the snow and you can follow the lines to the person. Snow sets up fast after the slide stops so you might need to dig with your ski or snowboard, so keep them with you.

This is a great topic. The “Think Tank” we call UWA, has some pretty smart guys.

I have studied a few speed flying videos that show pilots triggering avalanches and they were able to pull up and fly to the side of the slide. Now speed flyers are moving at about 30 mph on average, and we with a snowkite are lucky to get near that most of the time. In the pilot world speed is life. If you have forward air speed you have the wing authority to pull up and out. I think that if a snowkiter triggers an avi, he is probably moving pretty slow and may not have the speed to jump or glide out of the danger.

But the sudden acceleration may fill your kite and naturally pull you out.

I think it would be most riders first instinct to start signing the kite if a slide was breaking under your feet.

We know avalanches can create a huge wind blast out in front of the slide. This wind “push“is bound to create turbulent air. Bad for us.

I bet that if you were pulled under the kite lines would not all break. This is great because you just follow the line to the downed kiter. It should help speed the rescue.

Thoughts?

There are a few slopes at Strawberry that may be steep enough to trigger a slide. However, I have to think that the sage brush underneath will make for a more secure base. However, it is a good idea to stay off the steeper slopes and let them solidify.

As far as Skyline is concerned, does anyone think that Bosco is steep enough to slide? Guess it is possible, but not likely. The ridgeline with the cornice above it is the dangerous spot at Skyline and has been every year.

I have seen shallow slopes slide, it was in the spring at Brighton. First it rained, then froze, followed by one foot of heavy snow. Virtually, every uncontrolled sloped would slide.

[quote="Kenny"], does anyone think that Bosco is steep enough to slide? [quote]

It is steep enough to slide. It depends how much new snow comes and how well it bonds to the old snow and how well the old snow supports it. The snow on Bosco had alot of ski, snowboard and snowmobile compaction, which is a good thing. It really depends on whether we get the big dump.

Ralph knows what he's talking about, as a Patroller he sees moving fields of snow and this year is super dangerous. Get on the 7am email from http://utahavalanchecenter.org Up to you if feel your life is worth buying an Avalung, Barryvox beeper which can save 8 lives, gives heartbeats under the snow, a real probe and shovel.

Someone in the group should be the go to person to 'study' the snow. Its very alive, and you can die from trauma in a few inches of snow. Trevor and Troy, my sons have done 500 ski days in 5 years, average 100 backcountry days a year, they dig pits, PRACTICE rescues since its a mess when it happens, and aren't afraid to switch plans as you might escape but kill someone else. Not everyone wants to be a snow whisperer, and slopes under 25 degrees appear benign. Then you ski Alta this year and see rip outs to the ground, massive chunks above fire roads, on a rotten snow pack. Once you ride a slide, you'll gear up and share with others the inherent danger.

Here's a good video Bruce Tremper put together detailing our current deep slab issues and how we are dealing with it. it is worth 15 minutes of your time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... SSeYaO8SpE

Nice post Ralph.

This year has been very unstable, if you are not sure about what is unstable please ask around at this forum. Or at the kite spot you are at.

I have been burried twice once in bounds in PC, and once in Telluride, it is the worse. I would not want anyone to experance it.

I was suprised how many kiters were riding terrain at skyline that I would not go near with my becon on, I was also surprised how few kiters had a becon at skyline, at the Jackson get together almost everyone was rocking one.

I worked at the Army mountian warfare school for a while and although my training is way out of date, i still keep my basics fresh and hope thoose around me do the same.

We as a cummunity would only progess if we had all of the mountaineering skill needed to survive any issues at our kiting spots.

Great video Marty posted.

Thanks Ralph,

Billy

It is not stable at the Skyline... good video here.

http://utahavalanchecenter.org/facet_blow_out_02082012