Utah Windriders Association

This is the response I recieved this Morning from Dave Harris..

Mr. Bordy,

I have done some research on the life jacket issue with kiteboarding and have found the following information.

1) Kiteboards have been determined by the US Coast Guard to be a vessel and therefore are required to comply with life jacket laws. (see attached kiteboard determination)

2) Sailboards (not kiteboards) have been exempted in federal law from the life jacket carriage requirement. (see attached 33cfr175)

3) State laws concerning life jackets cannot be less restrictive than the federal law, therefore we cannot exempt kiteboards from Utah life jacket requirements.

This is not the answer that you had hoped for, but unless the USCG changes some of its laws, we are unable to even consider the issue of exempting kiteboards or any other vessels such as standup paddle craft from life jacket requirements.

Thanks,
Dave

I have the attachment and am happy to post them...

http://www.uscgboating.org/assets/1/wor ... ns/479.PDF

Can we check into the line that says
"beyond the narrow limits of a swimming, surfing, or bathing area the device known as a kiteboard is a vessel"

Are we in the area of swimming, surfing, or bathing?

What type of PFD are we required to wear while kiteboarding.

Coast Guard Approval Ratings:

Type I -
Provides the most buoyancy. It is effective for all waters, especially open, rough or remote waters where rescue may be delayed. It is designed to turn most unconscious wearers in the water to a face-up position.

Type II -
Intended for calm, inland water or where there is a good chance of quick rescue. Inherent buoyant PFDs of this type will turn some unconscious wearers to a face-up position in the water, but the turning is not as pronounced as a Type I. This type of inflatable turns as well as a Type I foam PFD.

Type III -
Good for conscious users in calm, inland water, or where there is a good chance of quick rescue. It is designed so wearers can place themselves in a face-up position in the water. The wearer may have to tilt their head back to avoid turning face-down in the water. The Type III foam vest has the same minimum buoyancy as a Type II PFD. It comes in many styles, colors, and sizes and is generally the most comfortable type for continuous wear. Float coats, fishing vests, and vests designed with features suitable for various sports activities are examples of this type PFD. This type inflatable turns as well as a Type II foam PFD.

Type IV -
Intended for calm, inland water with heavy boat traffic, where help is always present. It is designed to be thrown to a person in the water and grasped and held by the user until rescued -- It is not designed to be worn. Type IV devices include buoyant cushions, ring buoys, and horseshoe buoys. There are no inflatable Type IV devices.

Type V -
Intended for specific activities and may be carried instead of another PFD only if used according to the approval condition(s) on its label. A Type V PFD provides performance of either a Type I, II, or III PFD (as marked on its label). If the label says the PFD is "approved only when worn" the PFD must be worn, except for persons in enclosed spaces and used in accordance with the approval label, to meet carriage requirements. Some Type V devices provide significant hypothermia protection. Varieties include deck suits, work vests, and board sailing vests.

Type III/V -
Multi-Purpose Commercial Vests.

given that this may be a permanent requirement for us, I looked a little further into what qualifies as a a type I, II or III pfd. I found that there are approved inflatable CGA type III options out there, which look like they'd be the least impactful to us. There are some that are designed to be worn uninflated like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Revere-SportMax-Inflatable-Flotation-30-52-Inch/dp/B003ZKSN88/ref=sr_1_5?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1336504701&sr=1-5

And also some that are designed to be worn like a fanny pack, like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Revere-Comfortmax-Inflatable-Flotation-30-52-Inch/dp/B005IASJJ6/ref=pd_sim_sbs_sg_10

According to Alex's post, these need to be "on the vessel", so the second one could be attached to your board handle and it would satisfy the law. There are a number of choices in the $75 range. If you buy one, be aware that some are "automatic" inflation, which inflate when they get wet - obvously not the kind we need - get manual inflation.

nice job everyone.
I have a question to why we dont wear a PFD in Maui or Hood River? It hink this is what MArty was asking? Ashame we are the only place I can think of that requires PFD. Go figure Utah would have a handle on something different.
Or am I wrong?

...does anything good ever seem to happen in Utah County? Sure seems like they have it out for us there...

We werent allowed to jump the jetty last fall, or ride up the inlet to get to a point where you COULD jump the jetty, have seen pictures of people doing claiming to be doing it this year... and if i remember the insanity last year right that was not a temporary restriction...

Sure seems like we have a target on us there, and we may want to revisit the restrictions placed on us due to last years incident with the psychotic camp host, i really doubt this just popped out of the blue without someone doing something to piss off dnr or utah county enough to dig something like this up to make it harder to practice our sport.

Todd we may want to be careful how we go about finding that sort of thing, the last thing we need to do is give another state the same issues we are having now if the uscg rule is indeed as represented and it isnt another bizarre utah interpretation of a law not meant to be so restrictive.

Yea, we need to find a nice little mud puddle in the middle of nowhere to kite.
OH wait, hmmm

Also kiters need to quit breeding,
we need less kiters, not more, ha..

If you have not been on kiteforum lately,
here is the link to the thread I started.
some off topic arguing, then some good ideas.

http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2375599

We werent allowed to jump the jetty last fall, or ride up the inlet to get to a point where you COULD jump the jetty, have seen pictures of people doing claiming to be doing it this year... and if i remember the insanity last year right that was not a temporary restriction...

Those of who attended the the meeting with Utah County Commissioners were specifically asked about kiters jumping the jetty. We promised that we would stop this activity and police our membership. This is not a temporary restriction!

When I lived and worked in Colorado in the late 80's, Colorado mandated that all windsurfers wear PFD's so this isn't the first time I've seen this come up. It would be interesting to contact Coast Guard Maui or Oahu and ask them the current status of the laws in Hawaii for some hard facts about why they don't enforce these inland laws. Thanks to everyone for the leg work, concern, hopefully we can get an organized response to this problem. Marty's post on Kiteforum drew information both pro and con in terms of countries that require them and those that don't, and some that do but that don't enforce it.

In the meantime I know people are struggling with finding something suitable to use or wear that won't be a danger. I found two kite specific flotation vest on the Mystic website. I bought one when I was learning. Here's the link and the vest I have is at the bottom of the page on the left.

http://www.mysticboarding.com/products/ ... loatation/

I had a very pleasant conversation with the Rangers at Jordanelle this afternoon. They are also going to enforce PFD regulations this season. Our Kite impact vests, similar to the ones I listed for sale, will NOT pass inspection. Somewhere on the devise it must say USCG approved. Mine either say they are not approved or fail to mention anything. The Rangers know about impact vests and will also be checking out the wake boarders who wear them.. It's all about 'adequate" flotation.and impact vest do NOT float the wearer high enough in the water, end of story. Anyway. I also called my North and Naish distributors in Hood River, they have not had issues with Kiteboarding, yet, but SUP's are having the same issues we've had. They tried out a lot of items and have found that the 'inflatable belt systems" work best. The Rangers also told me that these were OK. I just ordered this one: "Stearns Suspenders Manually Inflatable Belt-Pack Life Jacket, RealTree Max-4 Camouflage"
Sports; $71.51 from Amazon. The Hood River guys also liked the Stearns as it seemed to have a lower, thinner, profile than some of the others. West Marine and others make them but some are a little thicker. Not to point fingers but SUP's seem to be what precipitated this enforcement.
JonMzee

I have a vague recollection back in the days before the exemption for windsurfers when a Parks
department guy came down to Rush gave out a lot of PFD tickets.

Maybe my memory is wrong.

-Craig

Marty Lowe wrote:Yea, we need to find a nice little mud puddle in the middle of nowhere to kite.
OH wait, hmmm

My USCG skipper friend from Cape Hatteras who runs a kite school came back to me with this concerning PFD's and kiting in North Carolina and Canada.

"So far not an issue in Hatteras yet either, like Hawaii and Oregon.
But, I know it is looked at from time to time.
There have been 2 recorded deaths due to kiteboarding on the island, that I am aware of, and both
did not have them on (PFD's; USCG approved).
Most of our Canadian customers are already wearing them and they don't mind at all.  Helmets/USCG (Canadian
up there) required PFDS are pretty much mandatory at most spots they are telling us.
They are treating kiters/windsurfers like vessels so to speak.
Not sure where this will go, but kite companies and wake companies are already making
USCG approved vests, rather than PFDs, I think they have to be at least Type III."

Great Job William "Bordy" (Official UWA Board Member, Kiting),

I wanted to do a little due dilligence before chiming in.

The UWA will be in full support of what you need. And let's keep "William" as the point man, Marty and Peter the official UWA co-representatives. Whoever else you think would be good. Just make it official so that there is consistency in the discussions.

Here are a couple of my thoughts when I first heard news of this (today)...

Common sense is the key phrase here, IMHO...

I asked myself, how many kiteboarding accidents or closecalls have the people involved WISHED they'd had a PFD on their body? If it is a very low percentage, or if the percentage is greater for the people who say it is an INCREASE in danger for entanglement, etc., then the fight should be absolutely to push the point that the Kite is a PFD.

The mention of "entanglement" or similar might open cans of worms... One of my thoughts is that we don't make it worse for ourselves by bringing in too many other issues that might tilt the conversation to areas that might limit more rights. Of course, safety is our FIRST CONCERN! But we need to stay calm with officials at this point not to feed unneccessary fires.

I actually think that the reference to the Olympic policy is also a good idea if it favors our desires.

I agree, talking to Dimitri et. al. about the work to keep the choice open for windsurfing would be a good idea. Althought the variables are different.

Thanks, Let us know how we can help.

Rick Heninger.
UWA Board Chair.

When I was newer at this and spending more time in the water, I had/have a light-weight PFD like the Mystic ones. It was a minor annoyance and was built for kiteboarding-- so it has room for arms to move around and a cutout for the harness attachment. And if its a colder day and I'm wearing blubber, I still don't even mind it (even though my wetsuit provides quite a bit of buoyancy all by itself). BUT, on those nice warm days in the summer when you just need your kite and your board shorts, it will really STINK to be wearing a PFD. I wonder if those waist-sized ones would pass? I think someone else posted something like this: http://urbankai.com/shop/inflatable-waist-pfd.

At Lincoln Monday there were riders with the waist PFD's which were inflatable. If you read the label on them it states something like they are not to be used with a personal water craft or for towing sports such as water skiing. Chris Sherwin also had a type III life jacket that said the same thing. I wonder if we would be able to use either of these? Just a thought before we all rush out and buy something that wont help us.