Current Utah PFD law..

[Kirk Hinnen]

After posting I spoke with Cory at Air Padre. They have a PFD called an MRS Vista for $69.95. I is a type III and state right on it that it is for personal water craft and sailing sports. He would let us do one bulk order of at least 4 pfd's to recieve a discount, they more the deeper the discount. Something to think about..

[Jason Klein]

Here's my take on what satifies the requirement. Please correct me if i'm wrong, as i just ordered one of the inflatables. A fully rigged kiter - kite, board & person - is viewed as a "vessel", just like a 20 ft motor boat would be. You need to have a minimum type III pfd on board for each passenger on the vessel, in our case, 1. We've been told by the rangers that a type V pfd with type III performance (the inflatables) satisfies the requirement. Consequently, we could have one of the inflatables or a full fledged type III strapped to our kite, board or person and it will satisfy the requirement.

[Marty Lowe]

I ordered a inflatable belt, got it in today.
It's gonna be very unobtrusive to wear.


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004D3 ... 00_s00_i00

.

[bradsaxe]

Am I the only one that isn't just rolling over in compliance? Perhaps I have just missed the chat being out of town. It seems ironic to me that in Utah if you are over 18 you can ride a motorcycle without a helmet, you can bike without a helmet at any age, you can windsurf without a PFD but you must have one to kite. It's also funny to me that the impact vests do not meet specifications. Also interesting that the IKO does not require PFDs except for students.

Nobody on SUPs in Maui has PFDs. Ever seen a PFD on a surfer?

Anyway I am sure others have inquiries in but I am going to dig around a bit.

Freedom to choose please....

[Don Losee]

Amen Brad. Fear of a ticket? Fear of losing access? Brothers. Living in fear is not the surfers way. I spoke with one of the Master IKO guys. The USCG will never change this regulation. But. The USCG have choosen not to inforce it. Utah DNR folks around here will understand there is "the spirt of the law.... and the letter of the law".
Live Free or Die
Capt. Don " Hollywood " Losee USMC

[jason morton]

Fast and loose! It is the Don way. Love it! Brad- what kind of skim are you riding?

[Craig Goudie]

So, some here have decided they'll be outlaw broad riders and some have not. Before windsurfers were exempted
from the PFD law, I was an outlaw board rider, and while I'm neither condoning nor encouraging bucking the system,
I do remember that the men on the beach in khakis, do burn out pretty quickly waiting for you to come in, so that
they can give you a ticket. Keep a weather eye on the beach for ranger garb and rides, and maybe stay on the
water until you see them leave, it might save you criminals a couple hundred dollars

If they chase you down from a boat, that's a different story.


-Craig

[Don Losee]

Who are you? Criminal or hero? Are you a team player, or do you lead? This little drama will pass. We, will keep kiting.

[bradsaxe]

That's what I'm thinkin too.

Jason, I am currently riding- with serious criminal intent- a Victoria Ultra (medium) and a Victoria Factor (large-no fin). The later is more for wakeskimin' which I thought might be better but so far I still prefer the Ultra. Maybe I need to put the fin in.

And just so not to risk hijacking this thread about PFDs.....I ain't gonna wear one but please feel free to if you would like.

[Kenny]

I really don't care whether you decide to wear a PFD or not. It is your choice. You may or may not get a ticket. However, if you decide not to wear a PFD at Lincoln and the whole banning kiteboarding issue is raised again because we are not complying, it is not going to go well for us if we are not obeying the rules. It is NOT worth the risk of getting kiting banned at Lincoln over this silly rule. Wear the silly PFD if you kite at Lincoln. Do what you want anywhere else. That is my 2 cents.

Sure, it is a silly regulation, but I can name a 1000 more.

[Marty Lowe]

Nobody on SUPs in Maui has PFDs. Ever seen a PFD on a surfer?

Brad, and others,
While I am not in favor of the law, just like helmet laws.
The thing that keeps coming to mind for me is,
Other places may be ignoring the law, but if we raise a stink
could the Coast Guard call for full compliance in other areas, like the Gorge and Maui?
I'd hate to be considered the group that caused other areas to have to comply.

So basically I would never use the argument that we do not see PFD's at other locations.

Please re read the Coast Guard ruling here.
http://www.uscgboating.org/assets/1/wor ... ns/479.PDF

Marty

[Todd Jacques]

I agree with kenny. I bought the belt pfd like marty did. no big deal other that costing me money i dont have. But kenny brings up the elephant in the closet. being cavalier and saying let it ride man, might get us all up the wrong creek. By the way the word out of the rangers mouth that day is they had already contacted deer creek about it. and from what i remember jon said he talked to jordanel rangers which are the same rangers at dcbb and they said we can wear the belt. we might not ever get confronted but if we do and they decide to repremand all of us? do you want to be the one?
anyways I was there when they wanted to give john a ticket and they were serious, so when you drive all the way down there and they say you cant kite I have a walmart special I will sell you for $7, thanks to peter miller for going and getting so we could kite.

As a community we need to decide what we want and not what is good for individuals, because as kenny pointed out one person could ruin it for all?
my .02

[bradsaxe]

Marty- I have read the law and as you pointed out earlier there is a key phrase, "when beyond the narrow limits of swimming, surfing or bathing area," that is clearly being interpreted differently by the Utah DNR than it is being interpreted anywhere else in the nation. Therefore, it is the argument that PFD laws do not apply to kitesurfing in other areas is not only worth pointing out, it shows that there is a legal precedent set elsewhere.

Kenny, Todd- thanks for your "two cents." It's certainly your right to post it on the internet just as it is my right to assume any risk every time I wake up in the morning. I am not taking a "cavalier approach" on this; it is my opinion that the USCG Laws are being misinterpreted and I am not going to buy in. What is right for the community is choice. I do not wear a PFD because it limits my experience and poses a potential hazard to myself while performing said activity.

I love how everybody jumps to the 'we are going to get banned' assumption every time something comes along. Go ahead and shoot holes in this example but if I run a stop sign in my car and get a ticket is the Police Dept going to ban driving for everyone?

[Erik Holmgren]

...I agree with Kenny, Todd, and Marty on this one, and this is why-

We have a poor history with Utah Lake, in particular Lincoln beach, and the result WAS nearly getting banned, except for the outstanding efforts of several key members of the community, putting aside things that were important to deal with an issue they were not all directly involved in to save access for us. What happened this spring? people conveniently forgot about the things we agreed to to save access to the best North wind launch in the area. We are playing with fire. BAD IDEA.

If you want to have choice, that's great. I personally don't want to wear a PFD, though I will until this is resolved...- I will end up purchasing a belt when I have the funds, until then, I don't plan on riding Lincoln... or DC, if I don't have one by the time public use at the lake picks up in warmer weather. ..

Bottom line- We are a minority user group. We do NOT generate as much income as other groups that don't have much reason to like us. Yes, we are a low impact sport environmentally, and yes we are a clean community, but bottom line- once a reg is written up, it is going to be nearly IMPOSSIBLE to get changed..

By brashly throwing aside a rule because we disagree on how it's interpreted, it will set a negative image of the community(again) if we are ticketed.. decreasing the likelihood of us working WITH instead of AGAINST DNR to come to a better, mutually beneficial interpretation of the law in question.

Has anyone considered getting in touch with DNR/Rangers who are in a different region (outside of Utah Lake) and seeing if we could work through a DIFFERENT contact in DNR who might be more open/sympathetic/understanding of our views? This would only work if we had some sort of documentation on WHY this is a bad idea/HOW this interpretation does not/should not apply to our launch sites, or not apply to specific launch sites at worst...

Look, some people want to buck "the man." go for it.. but if you end up being "the guy" that ruined kiteboarding in Utah because you whined about wearing a PFD... until we had exhausted all other avenues available to us WITH A GOOD IMAGE AS A COMMUNITY...




I have a tendency of coming across wrong online- this is NOT meant to make anyone angry or attacking anyone/any persons views or anyone personally, if it sounds that way, I sincerely apologize, please know it was NOT meant in that manner. anywho. my .02

[Marty Lowe]

Billy is UWA board member, front man for all things UWA for Deer Creek and Utah Lake.
He needs help doing leg work on this issue.
Ideas are great, implementing the ideas take more than just a suggestion.
Step UP....
Please contact him to coordinate.

Once again the interpretation of
"when beyond the narrow limits of swimming, surfing or bathing area,"
Should be our focus, changing the Coast Guard rule seems beyond our capabilities.