im having trouble with my kite

[bradsaxe]

I am not "pitching" anything. That is my point....don't "pitch" antything. Also, go back and read my post and you will see that I said, among other things that "... it is what works for you and that may take some time to figure out if you are just starting out."

If it is bullshit that C kites work in gusts then I will have to go back and negate the last 9 years of riding. Damn.

Perhaps the "OP" should not be kiting in 8-48 anyway.

Brand wars suck and that is my only point. You see it on kiteforum and as one poster pointed out this is not kiteforum.

As for inversion...just reporting on what I read.
http://www.nwkite.com/forums/t-9916.html

[Kenny]

I have a couple points to make in this debate. Let's come back to the primary thread. A new kiter was having difficulties with a older kite and wanted some recommendations. Then Brad and Justin decided to go off-topic and push the merits of a modern C kite. I understand the "horses for courses" idea, but for a new kiter in UTAH the right "horse" is not a modern C.

I am tired of seeing new riders come to the beach with kites that they bought off of ebay or ikitesurf that were highly recommended by some guy in Florida on http://www.kiteforum.com or the kite was sold at a serious discount. There is nothing more frustrating than learning a new sport on the wrong type of gear. Take this from a guy that learned on a 2-line kite. Sure a modern C kite is fine for an advanced rider in gusty conditions (however, the best riders in Utah don't use them, so that might clue you in), but for a beginner a bow or SLE kite is the way to go at this point in time.

Yes, there are a lot of kite brands out there to chose from and I for example am the only kiter around here that bothers to fly Flysurfer kites. However, for a NEW RIDER I suggest the Best Waroo or the Ozone Instinct 2006 or newer. That gives the new rider the ability to find an inexpensive new kite or a brand new one if they so desire. They also can receive advice from local riders on how to setup their gear. If you show up with some kite that no one has ever heard of before, then how can you expect others to help you out? That does not mean that Best and Ozone have a lock on the local business, the local crew has tried many different kites from many different companies. The Best and Ozone kites have proved through experience that they work well here and have gained a following.

Billy really ripped into Justin's hide. I don't think it has to get so personal. However, I do understand where Billy is coming from as he is the guy that is going to save your hide when you get hurt. Billy has EMT training and really looks after the crew. He has waited for me when I have had to drag my sorry hide to the car after having problems with my Flysurfer kites (I don't recommend them to beginners).

Kenny

[btjsfca]

Egads!

Billy, I never once meant to step on any toes, and I simply am not calling into question your credibility. I've really enjoyed riding with you and Jake and Brian, and I would never ever insinuate that you are feeding misinformation. My only point was that all of the points of view coming onto the board were with reference to old c-kites and that there are many people out there happily riding a different style of kite. Experience informs opinions, and I wanted to put in a different opinion. Both Brad and Les were talking about 2003 kites. Six iterations ago. Things change in the kiting world. The sport started developing by figuring out what could be done, and is now focusing on making it easier and safer to do it. The way you're talking, it seems a miracle that we haven't all killed ourselves.

And, by the way, I didn't "hot launch" that day. I went out with a kite TWO SIZES TOO BIG. Either way, a stupid error, but not as intensely braindead as you make it sound, and not a fault of the kite. Lesson learned. The kite is only as safe as the operator.

The reason I chimed in initially was to point out that there is a spectrum of choice. As bradsaxe noted, it's about what you want out of kiting. If you're a weekend warrior, just mowing the grass, then go for the SLE. If he aspires to wakestyle kiteloops, then there are other options.

I apologize if my initial message came off snot-nosed. We all know that tone of speech is hard to convey with the written word. If we were on the beach after a session talking about this, I would have said "don't listen too hard", and you would have called me on it, and I would have said "well, listen to them, but keep your options open".

I'm not being dogmatic, and as far as I can tell I never "pimped" a damn thing. In fact, in my first post, I took pains to never even mention Peter Lynn. And Billy? I never said that you were unnecessarily pimping anything either. Nor did I imply that you and Brian weren't doing right for the community. As far as I can tell, I'm part of this community as well. I wanted to put an opinion out there, and you came in, guns-a-blazin', doing all you could to erode my credibility and make me sound like a kook in order to discard my point of view. If you're all about the community, then let me be a part of it. Return even a bit of the respect that I have for you.

Kiting is serious business, yes; and the kites matter. But no kite is fool-proof. The trick is to make sure the fool at the other end of the lines has the skills and judgement to handle changes in the winds and the good sense not to put themselves in danger.

-J

[Marty Lowe]

There is a really nice feature on all forums I post on...

It's called the preview button..

I'm amazed at how much it can save your forum a ss.

It always reads different than when you write it.

Use it, then you don't have to back track.

-Marty

[jason morton]

Brad-
I have for sale:

SLE's:
2007 Ozone Egde 13m. Used only a couple times. Sell for $850
2006 Ozone Instinct. 11m $550
2007 Ozone Edge 9m. Brand new. $900
2006 Ozone Instinct. 7m. $500

C kites:
RRD Type 6 2005
9m
12m
18m
20m
I will entertain any offer on these beauties.

Horses for courses and choices for you!!!!!

[bordy]

Justin,

I didn't mean to rip into any one, why would I do that? If it seems the words I wrote were harsh go back and read them with a stoner voice and see how much nicer it sounds.

My point is the same there is no reason to reccomend a c-kite to a begginer in UT its that simple.

You and brad both did in a round about way and thats just plain silly.

Plus I really have a pet peive about posting advise second hand ,because anyone read it on another forum, as you and brad both did. Perhaps that brought out some malice.


And who is this brad guy, anyone who post just to "stir the pot" as he said seems odd.

And brad how is it in your nine years of kiting I have no idea who you are How long have you kite in UT for???

And in only 5 post on a forum you are new to your "stiring the pot".....is that a great way to make friends??!!??!!

You both should read some anger in my post, I was and am dissipionted in both of you for not thinking about the saftey facture for a new kiter but instead pushing your own agenda. If this was the Kiteforum.com place I would have unloaded with mad anger.

But we are friends and you should read nothing more into my post then my dissapointment. Thats all.

Kenny nailed it there are some great riders in UT how many ride C-kites here? Its not by choice its by nessasity.

Also Justin requardless of why you got dragged down wind for 100 yards, Fact is it scared the shit out of everyone just watching. That will never happen on the beach again, no matter who the pilot, several of us made that call after watching you that day.


And brad, we really don't "flame" or "troll" or anything like that on this forum its a bunch of kiters sharing info to make the sport as badd ass as possible for everyone, I hope you not one of thoose guys. No one likes that guy.

If your such a huge c-kite fan this is the place to buy gear we all have quivers of c-kites that we refuse to sell to anyone in the state.

I have yarga pros for sale, a whole guiver of north kites several big c-kites, some are even brand new. I even have a Naish that a friend of ours who used to teach got his head bashed in on after getting lofted in a UT gust he spent a long time in a coma but now he walks and drives, He probably will never kite again though so its for sale.........

Again much love I am even adding some of thoose smiley thing so I don't seem pissed off...


Feel free to PM me with any questions.

I really don't like the interweb thing enough to continue this thread I think the OP gets the point.

By Jason kites he takes better care of his gear then anyone on the beach!

[bordy]

I am not "pitching" anything. That is my point....don't "pitch" antything. Also, go back and read my post and you will see that I said, among other things that "... it is what works for you and that may take some time to figure out if you are just starting out."

If it is bullshit that C kites work in gusts then I will have to go back and negate the last 9 years of riding. Damn.

Sounds like it.....How many of thoose years have been in UT In gusty canyon high mountain storm influanced winds?? I know not the last 4 or we would know you?

Perhaps the "OP" should not be kiting in 8-48 anyway.

No one plans on it going 48 it was perect 15 for hours then it lulled to 8 spiked to 48 and droped back to 8......

And just for kick I went to read the post on NW forum. What a horrible piece of referance its obvious they guy may have had nine years of c-kiting under his belt becuase he says so but its also says he is new to SLE kites and so one day he trimes his kite wronf becuase he doesn't know how to preflight the kite over head he goes out and has a issue with a kite he had no idea how it would react and he payed the price it has nothing to do with SLE kites at has to do with trim.

In the winter myself and other high flyers trim our kites in ways that I don't even explain to most people how to do. If you are going to start messing with your trim abunch you better understand how it works.

Sounds to me the guy at rufus blew it on his own. It also just refers my point of second hand bullshit.

Heres a kite set up to back fly so I can hoover its cleary at the zenith and not inverting, Thats what I know not what I read on a forum....

[btjsfca]

This'll be my last post here since I agree that we ought to end this discussion.

My point is the same there is no reason to reccomend a c-kite to a begginer in UT its that simple.

You and brad both did in a round about way and thats just plain silly.

It actually didn't occur to me that I was offering this option to a n00b. Oops.

Plus I really have a pet peive about posting advise second hand ,because anyone read it on another forum, as you and brad both did. Perhaps that brought out some malice.

I think it's OK to learn from other people's experiences. I can't go out and fly every kite out there. Also, the Fuel-Synergy comparison came from a Peter Lynn team rider and tester. That's a claim I'm willing to repeat. Not just any idiot can say something worth repeating. I've also had a number of people approach me to fly my kite (since they are oddities on almost every beach) and they confirm the c-kite feel.

You both should read some anger in my post, I was and am dissipionted in both of you for not thinking about the saftey facture for a new kiter but instead pushing your own agenda. If this was the Kiteforum.com place I would have unloaded with mad anger.

I think the point is not to overstate the saftey of C's. I did say that gusty wind is problematic for a C kite. But there's a time and a place for them, and I'd say most of my UT lake sessions fit that description.

Kenny nailed it there are some great riders in UT how many ride C-kites here? Its not by choice its by nessasity.

There's also the fact that the majority of the kites out there are SLE nowadays. I can only think of about 6 kites that are C's, out of the dozens of kites out there. I suppose the argument I made is moot in the current kiting environment since the kite designers are working hard to get C performance with BOW safety.

Also Justin requardless of why you got dragged down wind for 100 yards, Fact is it scared the sheeot out of everyone just watching. That will never happen on the beach again, no matter who the pilot, several of us made that call after watching you that day.

So, what rules did you and your unelected comrades decide? Where do I go to renew my licence? That's cheeky of me, but it's a serious question. If we're going to have some standard beach safety rules, then we might want to discuss them as a community in a separate thread.

Thanks for getting back with a level-headed reply, Billy. At least your outburst was for good reasons. Between Derek and Mitch, I think we've had more than our fair share of catastrophe in this state. I personally won't ride Rush because of the low water and gust potential; DC also seems like a long drive for not much fun, too. Maybe picking my days and beaches wisely saves me from the kind of trouble that we've been fretting over here. I'm totally looking at Lincoln's rocky beach with a heighten level of respect!

-J

[Kenny]

This'll be my last post here since I agree that we ought to end this discussion.

Dang, this post has been fun for a gimp like me. Hate to see it end. Nothing to do, but bide the days until I can go kiting again. Perhaps, it will be on a modern C, then again perhaps not.

I even have a Naish that a friend of ours who used to teach got his head bashed in on after getting lofted in a UT gust he spent a long time in a coma but now he walks and drives, He probably will never kite again though so its for sale.........

Oh no, I thought that kite was long gone. I sold it to Derik. 12M Naish as I recall. I will buy it from you. Maybe I can make into a pair of kite pants

[bradbarton]

allrighty then... WOW! I tell you what.. this is awesome everybody giving their thoughts.. okay i appreciate everyone trying to help me out here. let me give you my actual kiting background.. in 2003 when i lived in houston my bro-in-law took lessons and tried to teach me everything he knows. he rode a naish 19m and that was way to big for me so i got the 16 i have never rode it cause bear lake is the only place i have tried and the wind up there sucks.. i am obsessed with flying and anything that flies. all i wanna do is get good at kiteboarding cause, next to snowmobiling, it looks like the funnest thing ever... anyways, as far as gear is concerned i don't really care what brand as long as i will no longer be a spectator. im down with supporting the local dudes cause thats how i roll.. i would totally be interested in getting a new kite i think those bow kite are awesome..

Bordy, where is your shop..? i think i could figure it all out in a lesson or two. I have windsurfed for a few years and i used to be in a wakeboarding club, so i have the board control and i have flown kites and r/c airplanes and helicopters my whole life so i know and understand flying things very well. my point is im confident will catch onto the whole thing quikly..

here is what i would like to do.. I am gonna fix this bladder with in the next two or three days, then i would like to just let someone on here with experience take my kite out and try it to make suer the thing even works. Preferably someone honest that wont cruise off with it. anyways, whether it works or not i will still probably buy a new kite..

the other thing that sucks here in utah for me is all my friends are lame and never want to go out and do stuff like this so i am allways 'flying solo' so i need to initiate myself into the 'crew' so to speak..

currently my left shoulder is dislocated so i need a week to heal so if you are interested in takin my kite out let me know.
bbarton@ifreedomdirect.com or just reply to this i will check it later.

Thanks you guys, have a nice day! ~ Brad

[Ralph Morrison]

I'd say that there are two types of conditions to worry about: light wind and mid-range wind. At Utah Lake north wind launches, I find the wind to be smooth and nice most of the time.


Don't listen too hard to these guys
-J

Dude, You've got a serious case of denial! Utah gets it's share of high wind. The day you hot launched was high wind and gusty! I was an eyewitness to that event and was the first one who got to you when you came to a stop. It was scary to witness and I'm suprized you aren't humbled by the incident. When it comes to safety, I think you OUGHT to listen hard to these guys!

What Billy was saying, and I agree with this sentiment, If he sees somebody about to make a dangerous mistake, he's going to say something to that person. It's not only kiter's health at stake, it's also what that kiter might do to somebody else or losing access to a site.

[tjacques]

i was not going to chime in but brad you should check jasons kites out. you could buy two really nice kites for the price of one, who knows maybe even three for the price of one. he keeps his kites nice, and they are top notch, not to mention he will probably work with you and maybe even let you try them. by the way get the ozones they are utah ready. i would buy but i am tapped on new kites. good luck and defienately look at a lesson, it will make you a safe happy kiter. have fun and be safe.

[Marty Lowe]

all i wanna do is get good at kiteboarding cause, next to snowmobiling, it looks like the funnest thing ever...

We need to talk...

I bought a sled, mainly to get to some unreal kite spots in the winter.
There is a small group of us, and hopefully it will get larger every year.

You wanna combine the best of all possible things.
Sledding to the high counrty powder to kite is it..

-Marty

[btjsfca]

[I wrote a response to Ralph, but I'm deleting it to keep things civil. I'll stick to my last statement and shut my mouth.]

[bradbarton]

Marty,

well i definatly know a few amaziing spots to go kiting in the winter time.. it depends on where you wanna go exactly. fairview has a spot where alot of kiters go. wolcreek area has way good spots up on top of the hills where it is ALWAYS windy. There is even some good spots up by park city. When it comes to winter sports thats where i am no rookie. haha. but that does sound like the best day ever. going riding to go kiting.. nice