Snow Board/Kiteboard shapes/rocker/sidecut questions

[bigwavedave]

Looking for something new to put under my feet behind the kite in the snow. I know everyone who uses the snowkite specific boards with rocker (reverse camber) and reverse sidecut seems to love them in the powder but I've heard stories of them feeling pretty sketchy on hardpack. I guess I'm wondering if anyone has used any of the new libtech banana type boards or any of the reverse camber/rocker style snowboards that still have some normal sidecut and how they compare in the powder. I guess the new magnetraction edge technology is suppose to kill it for keeping an edge in in icy conditions and hardpack (I've heard that people are using them on frozen lake ice with no snow on top that say they can carve turns and hold a solid edge) but I'm wondering does the lack of a concave edge really become enough of a handicap in the powder to keep it from being a killer snowkite board if you get a good twin tip of this new technology? It'd be great to have a 195 board for deep pow days, a 164 twisted for shallower pow days, and a regular twin tip snowboard for hard pack/icy days but what about days where there's a little bit of all of them in the same session? Can one of these new rocker boards with some sidecut be a good jack of all trades? Anyone who's ridden them all that's not too biased?

[Leo Chan]

Just ask Hitler!

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6249&p=17076&hilit=rocker#p17076

[bordy]

I have the set up you think id dreamy a 200 a 164 twisted and more snowboard then I know what to do with, I have also ridden the magna shapes, I ride my twisted the most on all snow, including hardpack, who ever said they don't work well on hardpack lied to you...

[David Kyle]

I hear that as well and I've said it myself. But what I meant was that they are difficult on "ultra hardpack-ice" as I believe most any board would be. My Banana Hammock
Is almost identcall to the Twisteds and both boards seem to dominate over traditional snowboards behind a kite. I'm interested in this new technology that you spoke of.
Must take a look.

[bigwavedave]

I guess what I'm wondering, Billy, is if there's a noticeable difference between your twisted 164 and a similar length magnetraction board with rocker. Will something like that still dominate in powder? (I'm sure it'd cross over into the resort a little better).

[Augie]

Although I telemark ski and don't snowboard I own a pair of Libtech ski's with magnetraction. They really do hold an edge better than other ski's . What this means to me is more precise carving in all conditions. When you put these ski's on edge they CARVE. Not everything is pure powder that we ski , especially this year.

[bordy]

Dave if you are looking for a board that will serve double duty as a resort and kite board then a magna board will suit your needs much better, Just like resort riding on piste and off piste boards are two different things, the twisted is made to handle ungroomed conditions behind a kite, a magna board is made to ride groomers at the resort, its apples and oranges, if you are trying to make orange apple juice then the magna will fit the bill better becuase the twisted is not a groomer board and resort rides poorly.

Thats really the deal, it you want a kiteboard that rules kiting, then get a twisted, if you want a resort snowboard to kite with get a twin tip be it a magna or a traditinal radius stick ( I picked up a used burton domanit for the misses since the twisted is too large for her for 60 bucks at Max snowboard shop in PC), the problem with resort boards is really the radius size, most resort board including magna boards have a small radius between 7-10 meters, this makes them easy to turn at the resort, but hard to track and much more work under the kite. the twisted board wants to track straight like your kite wants to fly, so they are easy and comfortable to ride while kiting. While a resort board is no where near as much fun behind the kite requardless of the shape, becuase it wants to carve a arc up wind the entire time and needs you to change your imputs and balance over and over every second to maintain control, this is bunk while kiting and cuases musle cramps and is way to much to much work to be fun. I bet I can ride a hour or two a day longer on my twisted then a resort raduis stick using the same energy.

As always Dave I reccomend you try before you buy, ask someone to borrow their twisted, there are plenty around, then perhaps go to a shop and demo a magna. decide for yourself. I have over a hundred snowboards including, magna, rockered sticks. Theres a reason I ride my twisted the most, and recomend it to others. If you are kiting with a snowboard, many of us have worked to bring a shape that works best to the market, becuase everything we tried was substandard, there are new shapes being created for kiting, but none of them new shapes come from resort boards that use gravity to turn for a reason.

Plus my jaded take is if you are riding groomers at the resort it should be like this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-2kz02s9Uo

[bigwavedave]

It's starting to look like I'll be the proud owner of another "quiver" for wintertime sports. I'm going to need a bigger house (at least I'll have more space in my wallet)

[Augie]

It looks like Bordy nailed it when he started talking about sidecut on ski's/boards. That is the single most important factor in whether a board will want to track mostly straight or be more prone to want to turn. Its all a trade-off on what you want to do- turn or go fast, and the sidecut determines that much more so than the flex pattern. Well written Bordy.

[bigwavedave]

In powder or randomly chopped up snow I can see this to be true, but on hardpack (Icy conditions or really packed out days where the edge doesn't sink in) I'd think that the convex edge would give you very little stability with only a very small portion of that edge being on contact with the ground (I know kiting we're not doing groomers but we do have our fair share of crusty snow and icy days). If the entire effective edge was in contact with the surface due to board flex I'd think it'd turn downwind. I guess the best thing to do is to just get out there and ride it all. I'll be trying some new stuff here and getting something soon. 2 more hours per session before getting tired sounds good to me (of course that means I won't be home for dinner . . . honey).

[Augie]

I look at my magnetraction ski's as being like a serrated knife versus a straight edge blade. Actually they excel at hard or icy conditions. That is where I notice them much more. When I first got them I experimented with how far over I could lean into a turn and still hold an edge and it was very noticeable. However, I don't really like those magnetraction ski's for kiting because the sidecut is too much and they are softer flexing than the ones I prefer to kite with. They carve and turn well at the resort but the ski's that I use for kiting (BD Verdicts) have minimal sidecut and are stiff.

I'm not sure if I confused you more or clarified things with this post.

[bigwavedave]

I was more referring to reverse side cut but you don't really see that on skis even for kiting.