Opinion Poll, Ban Kite Lessons at DCBB

[Don Losee]

Please vote. Yes or No

[bigwavedave]

I vote we lobby to have the fence posts, power lines, highway, and nearby homes removed.

[John Guay]

I have some suggestions under Kenny's thread.

[bordy]

I only ever taught three leason at DC, at the old launch. All of the student had already been to UT lake with me and could body drag and self rescue before coming to DC, I brought these student to DC becuase they all said this would be theoir primary sailing point. Only Chris Sherwin kites there regularly now.

You have heard it from me and others before Don, DC BWB is not for begginers, why would you want newbies there.

I of course vote NO to lesson at BWB all it does is increase the chance of the launch getting lost, Plus it tells all your newbies that this is a place to come practice kiting, since it is where they learned. I think you had a experance with a student just recently who was out there placing BWB in jepordy?? Leroy right?

DC with boat or watercraft support, is different and the only way I told Kite Utah I would teach there.

[John Dubock]

Not to be a pig here but excuse me ...not paying to even get in the park and making money off lessons? I love the kiters, you guys keep this board rockin', and you've proven to be a solid crowd. But look at it from a local Heber person/lawyer/driver by /farmer point of view. Tons of cars parked, highly visual kites for sure is a good thing, but rules is rules...

The poor people pay $9 bucks to get in to IB to picnic, they don't poach. Trash is insane this year, I'm polling the Rangers for a solution there. I pay $75 for a season pass, which supports the State, gets me Ranger services....

Try poaching at Jordanelle, those Rangers there are solid, informed, know the rules, busy as hell, clean beaches ....a win win...Barbed Wire Beach is an aberration, wild n free, but by no means invisible and we all impact the environment.

[Josh Shirley]

John has a point here. About 10 years ago when I was learning I went to DC was going to launch just North of IB and the ranger threatened giving me a ticket for not paying. Since then I think they have lightened up. I don't really care who pays or who doesn't point being if they want you guys out of there the rangers could easily enforce the current rules. My guess is BWB is living by a "don't ask don't tell" policy.
Those type of situations don't ever seem to be permanent.

I don't know what is best for beginner kiters so I don't want to comment on that.

[bordy]

nice point by both of you , the fisherman don't pay to fish at a bunch of places and even take the fish home!!

But the threads purpose is..., is it safe to teach at BWB, and Should there be lessons there. This is a very important topic to the kiters that live and play here...

[PeterMiller]

Question: What would it take for it to be safe and teach at Deer Creek?
Someone on a Jet ski
I do not know the answers.
I certainly would like to hear the dialog on that.
We all want everyone to be safe that is the key.
Lets be solution based. People will always want to learn how to kite.
My view is as a community we have not come up with a good plan for teaching.
We can do this "have a plan for teaching" or wait for the Gov to do it for us. Im all for self regulation but
a lassie fair "leave it alone" will not work in this day and age. Its time to
come together and get some work done on this issue. What are the policys of
the Gorge, what is the policy of Maui, lets take what people have done in the
past and make it far better for everyone. My belief is that if we do our homework right
that the law just might save us.

[Kenny]

I don't see any harm flying the trainer kite there. However, I don't see how the next steps can be done in a safe manner. The wind at DC is too uncertain, the launch is on-shore and there are plenty of obstacles downwind. Jet-ski or boat assisted would work.

[bradsaxe]

Disclaimer: I have been reluctant to post on this or any other kiting website for the last period of time because 1) sometimes the banter bothers me but mostly 2) having kited the gorge for 11 years I have seen the effects of too much talk on public websites leading to the closure of good spots (i.e nwkite.com discussions regarding the Lyle sand bar).

Answers: Emphatically NO, DCBB is NOT suitable for lessons.

Reasoning: Last spring I became an IKO Level 1 instructor. I entered into the course thinking I knew all there was to teaching somebody how to kite having taught many in the past (on C Kites no less) including my most precious student aka my wife. I was blown away by how much I walked away with from that certification experience and I cannot believe that anyone would teach in good conscience without some form of certification either IKO or PASA if the former is too French for you, but that is off topic.

With the primary goals of a kite instructor being to create SAFE and INDEPENDENT kitesurfers in mind, here is why BB is unsuitable:

1) THE WIND IS ONSHORE!!! Not much needs to be said here but it should be noted that site selection is one of the first on your check list when giving a lesson. As we all know new kiters cannot stay up wind right away. To be safe, ample obstruction free acreage of water downwind of the student is a must not just for safety but for the success of said student. DCBB does not fit this bill unless you have a JET SKI and bring the student well up wind of the launch. (read ULLB)

2) The wind is generally of poor quality. Those of us that kite there do so knowing that we may be in for more than we bargain for on an average day. When I walk away from DC with a good session I am grateful but I know that I have had better sessions in other parts of the world. If the student's success and safety are paramount then steadier wind is an important consideration (read ULLB).

3) The launch is difficult. One has to walk some distance from the launch to the water generally with the kite at 12 o'clock (prime lofting position) often on slippery ground. While a decent instructor would not allow a 'newbie' to do this, at some point a student will know just enough to be a danger to him/herself and take that step. The wind at the launch shifts direction and puffs and lulls like no other launch I have been to. A minimum of intermediate kite flying (not kitesurfing) skills are required.

Finally, there are three things a student needs prior to the lesson starting 1) a helmet, 2) a PFD and 3) a signed release form and that is all I will say about that.

I worry a little bit that someday we cannot kite from barbwire beach and I think John Dubock made some great points. Will kite lessons there lead to closure? I don't know. I do know that with a jet ski you could eek out a lesson at DC but ONLY WITH A JET SKI (and of course the three aforementioned items); I, however, would almost never teach a lesson there.
Sorry for the long post

[Don Losee]

The answer is clear. I will stop teaching kiteboarding lessons at DCBB. Case closed.
Don

[bordy]

I think its the money spot for trainer kite intro lessons and showing student the stoke, Don, just not for getting wet. You are making a Just call by stopping, plus UT lake is coming into its fall push and that can be your money maker...

I admire your cander. And judgment.

[RickHeninger]

Personally, I think beginner lessons are best taught in Fairview.

[Shawn Henderson]

Devils advocat warning...

How many North days have we had this year?

Newbs are not wise, patient and laid back. Most newbs are stoked to the point of stupidity (Trust me, I am expert at being a newb). I hope a lack of DC instruction does'nt move them to worse decisions like going it alone, kite on a south at Lindon, practice flying the new 11m Waroo at a park (I did NOT do that, My stupidity did not get that bad, just making a point) So my vote is for some sort of post intro lesson offering at DC. Bring on the jetski, or whatever, but something. Most sailable days will be at DC. Oh and at what point do you reach the Kite 2 rating. When do you become experianced enough to pass muster. I know, I know, I am a poleboarder I dont see the whole picture well. But if you set the bar, even if its really high, maybe newbs will be willing to do it safely and the right way. hope there will still be a open site at DC when I reach that point. Feel free to disregard, just some brainstorming.

[Emmanuel Pons]

Im all for self regulation but
a lassie fair "leave it alone" will not work in this day and age.

Nothing to comment. Interested in the conversation though since at some point I'd love taking some lessons again.
Just working as spell checker for now

"Laisser faire"